Garaventa Hill November 1 2023 “Town Hall” transcript

Machine generated transcript of the 2023 Garaventa Hill urbanization attempt with video timestamps, synchronized with the video posted on our Youtube page.

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all right well good evening everybody thanks for taking time out of your evening to join us my name is Steve
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Stewart I’m a assistant community development director with the city of Livermore been working here about 23
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years I’m also a Livermore resident. I’m joined tonight by Paul Spence our community development
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director, assistant planner Shannon Pagan and associate planner
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Cam Derwahl and Doug Mann is… I’m with citizens for
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balanced growth and we are the people that consult with the city for the funding which we do have that we can
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use to buy the hill and keep it open space if that’s what the neighbors would like to do. So we’ll talk a little bit
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more about the details of that fund and how that works and what the steps are uh
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entailed in accessing that money um again the idea here is to um share
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information uh about the project process um go a
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little bit about the history kind of what the next steps are try and help you be as fully informed as possible I’ll
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and then we’ll have a time for a Q&A at the end we’ll try and our best to answer any questions that you might have and um
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if we can’t get to them tonight we’ll develop a a kind of an FAQ piece that we’ll end up posting on our uh web page
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and so we’ll we’ll start with kind of a just a general overview of the development review process and what
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happens when folks own land and when they want to do stuff on their property
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um basically it’s the um State Planning
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and Zoning law is the main framework that establishes requirements for cities
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and counties to have a long range plan often called a general plan and then a
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zoning code which implements that so um there’s also some other state laws
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called the subdivision map act that has uh laws around what you have to follow
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both as a city and as a developer for example when you want to divide up land
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into lots for residential houses for example or industrial complexes or
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shopping malls or if you want to subdivide your property and build a duplex for example and then the permit
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streamlining Act is another law that sort of establishes timelines and
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procedures to um make sure that uh projects move forward with a process and
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allows the public to participate and gets to a conclusion at some point and then at the local level we
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have a general plan and a Livermore development code which is our zoning code
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again the general plan is a policy document it um sets forth policies for
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how the city will grow or develop or preserve land for about a 10 to 20 year
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time period our last our current General plan was done in 2003 we’re about two
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years into a comprehensive update for a general plan that’ll look out to the
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year 2045 and there are opportunities to participate in that process if you’re
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interested uh we are developing a draft land use um scenario over the next
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couple of months and you’ll if you haven’t seen us out of farmers markets or other local events there’s
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opportunities to uh participate in workshops online and through uh other
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channels the website for that is Imagine Livermore 2045 and again that’ll Set uh
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development and preservation policy for another uh 20 years or
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so the development code uh implements the general plan so
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that um essentially create um governs the way
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that land is um used or developed like it’ll establish the height of buildings
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how far they’re set back from the road from each other how big they are the bulk of them the
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design and for uses you you know it ensures that uses are compatible with
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each other so you don’t have schools for example next to gas stations or things
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like that the all California cities and
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Counties have a general plan this is the city’s General plan map and you can see in the middle is the
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32 acre uh gaven Hills project site it’s um the different colors on the
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map mean different types of land uses the shades of brown and yellow are
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generally residential Red’s commercial uh this is Brick Lake up here
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um but you’ll see the the s’s General plan designation has a ul1 which is
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urban low residential one uh which is think two uh one to two units to the
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acre shares the same general plan designation of some of the other lands out there Bluffs is a little
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um higher density
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there yeah the um uh then this is the zoning map that
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implements the development policies in the general plan and uh so again the the gaven site
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is kind of right in the middle there outlined in light blue it has a zoning designation of plan unit development
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115 which uh identifies that it was part of the um
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zoning and development plan who you don’t have to touch it for it to move um
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part of the development plan for uh the development to the South some of the development to the
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East and um so that’s the gray there means plan development or plan unit
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development um those zoning designations mean that you can tailor the development
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to respect effect earthquake fall zones for example um Hills um other resources
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like Creeks um and then move the development to around different places
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uh where typical zoning wouldn’t allow it but um a lot of the zoning out here is PD or plan
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development and again this is designed to implement the general plan so the the Gaben Hills project
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is um the actual development applications
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are I’m sorry I may have missed
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a you could just jump to the part where we saved the hill Steve uh yeah we’ll have FAQ at the end
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there God thanks um so again every property owner has a right to apply to
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use their property to develop structures that could range in size from accessory dwelling units adus you might have heard
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sheds gazebos uh residential development um the city’s obligated to to process
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those applications and evaluate those for consistency with the general plan and
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Zoning uh in the gabena um sorry that process also allows uh Property Owners
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or developers to make changes to the project to gain consistency with those
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uh codes and and general plan so um you know for example if you’re going to
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build a gazebo in your backyard you may not get the building code electrical code right the first time you have an
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opportunity to go back and forth fix it and get it to comply with those codes
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yes hey Steve I’m just wondering when you’re talking through the processes are you going to take questions like if we
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have a question about the process itself not not the development but but what you’re talking about yeah you we can
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well I’d like to do questions at the end about everything okay uh just to make sure we kind of finish I have about 30
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minutes or so and about hour for the most important parts of your questions
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and and other information is that all right thank you sure so in the in the gaven um
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pills uh case the property does have a general plan and residential zoning
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designation they resubmitted a project and paid for to to move forward again
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after a court decision I’ll talk about all that later in April March and April
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and um it’s the city’s role to evaluate that
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application again against a general plan and zoning and design
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[Applause] standards so there are various roles
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that the parties play in the development process staff will look at the application evaluate it for consistency
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with the general plan zoning design standards and guidelines we’ll refer that project out to other agencies like
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liore area Recreation and Park District uh Zone 7 flood control agency Public
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Works police fire uh to get their comments on development and then we’ll
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take all that information prepare a staff report and uh that document along
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with some technical studies our typically put in a package for the Planning Commission for the public to
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look at the Planning Commission and city council to look at uh when they’re making their decisions on a
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project the Planning Commission uh will in this case be
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advisory to the city council
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um and uh they’ll be they typically will act in two ways when they’re looking at
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a there’s a legislative uh way with they’re considering a new law or a new code or
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if they want to change a law or a code or they’re acting their quasi Jud
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judicial role where they’re applying existing law and evaluating project if
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it meets it or not city council is the decision maker
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in a uh in in this case both roles uh that they’ll be also be acting in a
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similar role a legislative role is when they’re looking at new laws or changing existing
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laws or in the gaven case a quasi judicial role where they’re evaluating a
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project for conformance with existing law they’re not we’re not proposing to change any laws to allow this project to
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move forward um legislative decisions have a lot of discretion where the city
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council can say Noe uh we don’t think that’s that project’s appropriate we don’t we’re not going to
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uh approve it uh K iici they’re not obligated to approve it but they do have to look at
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it very closely in comparison to the existing laws and standards in place so
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there’s not as broad discretion to say you know I don’t like the project so I’m not approving it
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basically and so again in the in the gaven Hills uh project they’ll be acting
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in a quasi judicial role to make sure that the project complies with our
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zoning uh and general plan the the project itself has not
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changed since the uh 2018 and 19 approvals
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um and so they they um based on city council direction did a
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number of uh revisions of the project to gain consistency with our general plan and
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Zoning part of the development review process is also to uh includes
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environmental review under the California environmental equality act which is SQL for short and um the main purpose of seqa is
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to fully inform the public and decision makers about the potential environmental
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impacts of a project also Foster coordination between
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other agencies like the ones I mentioned before but also including federal and
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state resource agencies uh and then enhance public
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participation in the process so there’s a separate public process that allows input on the environmental documents for
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projects and just really quickly um an overview of squa the first step is
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determine if it’s a project or not project is any sort of activity governmental uh organization carries out
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that may that will have an impact on the environment or may have an indirect uh
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but foreseeable impact on the environment so that means it’s a project once it’s a project there’s a
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number of exemptions that SQL has in it um this gaven project is not exempt so
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it’s subject to squa then the third step will it result in significant environmental
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impacts and uh then depending on the answer to that if there are no
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significant impacts a negative declaration or a mitigated negative
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declaration is prepared it’s an environmental document uh that that
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includes a statement that there’s no impacts the environment or if there are significant
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impacts that an environmental impact report is prepared and that’s what was done for the Gan Hills project and the
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idea of an environmental impact report is to identify those unavoidable impacts
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and include uh project features that will minimize or reduce those environmental
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impacts to levels that are not significant anymore this is about two years worth of
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college stuff in about five minutes so sorry uh and then
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finally uh public hearings for development riew process um there’ll be
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a few I already mentioned for SQL they’ll have the Planning Commission will hold a public hearing to allow
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comments on the environmental uh document and then uh after the public
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comment period just 45 days on that closes um and we’ll talk about calendar
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later on the Planning Commission will hold a a public hearing it’ll be a recommendation to the city council and
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then the city council will hold another public hearing where the final decision would be
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made so that’s kind of an overview of the development process and what this Project’s gone through since about 2011
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if you count all of the time uh so just a little bit of history
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on the site and the area back there the the site Genta and the surrounding area
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had residential designations on it from our 1976 plan it was revised in 1988
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uh where they lowered the density a little bit from 4 and 1/2 units to the acre to two two to 3 units to the acre
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back in that 2003 General Plan update it was changed again and lowered lowered
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the density from three units to the acre to one to one and a half units to the acre in 2012 is when lafy applied to
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have the uh applied for the development they were proposing 76 residential units
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with a bridge over par St you hired L Gregory in 2011 right so uh can you uh
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can we wait till the end I’m happy to talk about environmental uh stuff in the
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process um so
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2012 uh application moved forward to 76 units
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um and that included a general plan Amendment change the existing law to
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allow more units than the actual General plan and Zoning allowed uh they’ve worked with staff on
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projects we on uh the project we got them to reduce it down to 47 units heard
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from the public they didn’t want the ha Street Bridge so that was removed and that did not require a general plan
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Amendment and then uh in 2014 it made it to the Planning Commission Planning
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Commission recommended denial do the extensive grading and uh Aesthetics concern from
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the park district on impacts to the adjacent gabena Wetlands
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preserve uh they uh did some more um work on the project we met with the LI
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with the park district to address their concerns uh those features were included
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into the the project uh Planning Commission at that time recommended approval to the city
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council but the city Council said uh go back work on your project some more uh
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make it more subordinate to the land form out there and uh then come back to the Planning Commission so over that
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about 2 and 1 half year time period uh they did uh work on the project removed
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uh units narrowed the street widths uh provided more single story houses got
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lowered some of the retaining walls uh tried to reduce the amount of overall grading
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and um added back in the uh bridge over Hawk Street but it would be only for
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emergency vehicles pedestrians and bicycles or any type of Mobility uh
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equipment uh Planning Commission recommended approval 2018 city council
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uh considered the project in the environmental document and approved it in
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2019 and the um approval was challenged by save the hill
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group in 2019 uh or at least that’s when the
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court decision was I don’t know when the exact filing was but the um Superior Court uh denied the lawsuit uh but then
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on appeal the appell appell court reversed that uh decision and sent it
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back to the lower court uh for further proceedings with direction to the city
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to remove the or resend the approvals of the project in the environmental
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document and said that the no project alternative in the environmental impact
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report was um inadequate because it failed to disclose and analyze open
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space funding that could be used to conserve the property as part of their no project
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alternative uh so so in 20 late 2022 almost a year ago uh the city council
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did remove or resend the approvals for the project and they also desertified
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the environmental impact report so those were uh no longer um
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approved and uh later in the spring of 2023 is when
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laery uh said or uh we’re going to we want to remedy what the court said was
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wrong with our environmental document and um move move forward with doing that
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and go through the process again and um that is kind of where we’re at
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today so they they do have an application in for the same development
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it’s uh um 44 homes six um sorry I’m
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jumping ahead I’ll get to the project in a second um the way that environmental
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docu environmental review documents are handled um is a developer
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will pay for that to the city the city will go and hire an environmental
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consultant so that we retain control over the document the content uh the
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developer not allowed to review it or have input into it uh so that it remains
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but they pay for it they do pay for it right which I think I just said right
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they pay that City administers a contract and um
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uh so we have oversight of How It’s prepared uh then it’s released to the
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public for public review uh but anyways that that’s how an environmental impact
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report is handled uh on the payment side who administers it it’s the
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city so the the court decision talked about these open space
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funds and um we’ll go into some more details on those
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now uh so in particular they mentioned the Altamont Landfill open space fund
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and the dty valley settlement agreement fund uh regarding the Altamont fund that
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was established in 1999 when the Altimont landfill wanted to expand uh through litigation and an
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eventual settlement um the landfill operator was obligated to pay a fee for
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each ton of waste disposed that could go towards acquiring open space
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so um right now is about 20 half 20.6 million in that account that could be
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used to acquire open space um the first priority that’s in
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the settlement agreement for open space to be acquired is it has to be biologically
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diverse second is that it has to have significant visual values and or
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non-motorized Rec Recreation so value value for trail Trails or passive
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Recreation again about $2.6 million in that account the dhy valley settlement
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agreement which um Doug and his group citizens are balanced growth were parties to along with the city and a
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handful of other uh parties was a settlement agreement uh basically over
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development in the tasahara valley uh and the provision of water the
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settlement agreement required the developers out there the time windamir Chappelle and uh a handful of other
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developers to pay $11,000 for each uh residential unit built uh to a fund to
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be used for open space resulted in $5.7 million um there’s about $4.9 million in
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that account now and the priorities for that are for
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acquiring open space from willing sellers of um agriculture or um open
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space for um either in fee or with easements but anyways for acquiring open
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space or agricultural lands to preserve those funds can be used north of i580 and basically east of
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Dublin and again there’s about $4.9 million in that
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account back to the Altamont uh open space fund there’s a process for both of
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these funds and how those funds can be accessed the Altamont open space committee consists of Alama County the
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Sierra Club city of Livermore and city of
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Pleasanton city of Livermore Sierra Club and Alam County make decisions on money that’s supended in East County uh these
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are the priorities um that the committee has identified for West County and East
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County including Duan count Canyon alai sink area of Springtown Altamont
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Wildlife Corridor and some uh Coral Hollow and Cedar Mountain in the South part of the
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county there’s a lot of text on this slide sorry I’m not going to go over each other but they um these points here
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basically help the committee understand or evalue Grant applications for what
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has significant native biod diversity value same with the second priority
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that’s in the settlement agreement for non-motorized recreation or visual character the committee’s also adopted
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uh three criteria to evaluate proposals for
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Acquisitions um those include strategic value and land protection so is it at
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risk of being developed is it in a place that could lead to further uh protection is it continuous to other
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protected lands uh so that’s the sort of um strategic value there are there other
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funding sources to partner with that money so uh you know typically they can
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be pretty expensive so you try and find Partners like East Bay Regional Park District Tri Valley
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Conservancy uh to City of Livermore to uh partner together and and fund and
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finally the last criteria adopted by the committee is willing sellers is a property on the market is a owner
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willing to sell it over time that committee has spent
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about a little over uh over $7 million to acquire a little under 1300 Acres
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throughout East County um city of Livermore has bought a few of those uh
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and some in partnership with citizens for Val growth
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um uh and then turning to the dhy valley settlement agreement
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um those again are for for acquiring property from ruling sellers of
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agricultural or open space lands about $4.9 million in that account the the
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transactions in green are the ones we’ve used the dty valley settlement agreement
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money to contribute towards uh they were also partnered with money from East bake
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Park district and the alamont money to put together a package to buy uh these
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properties and they’re outlined in green here uh 79 Acres up here called Eddy
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flat and then the Farber property over here to the east of the Garena
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site and um those are currently owned by East Bay Park District they’ve developed some
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some stage in area facilities here eventually this will be part of the Brushy Peak uh
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complex it doesn’t have Trails on there
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already so the you know both of these open space funds have requirements for
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Willing sellers uh the Gava family has not been
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a willing seller to the city um you know we’ll we’ll ask them again uh but it’s
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been our experience for years now that they’re um they’re in a contract with
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laery they’re not interested in selling it to the city
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um and so uh based on our experience with these
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committees the acquisition of the gabena piece or gabena property would not be
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eligible to use these funds based B on the criteria that are in place and have been used over the last 15
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years so the current project talked about a little bit it’s it’s uh
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44 single family homes I think there are eight eight single story uh
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units there are six affordable units that are Duets on the corners so a total
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of 44 homes 38 single fames six of horable the lot sizes range from a
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little over 8,500 ft to over 13,000 Square ft the home sizes range from
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about 2400 Square ft to a little over 3,000 square
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ft the twostory homes are about almost 32 ft tall there’s a 35t height maximum
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there uh and then there’s eight eight one-story homes the project will have have um
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publicly accessible uh and sort of more improved Trails out to the Rock
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outcrop uh again the emergency vehicle access from Hawk Street it’ll allow uh
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also Trail use for students or pedestrian
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bikes and the some of the revisions that they’ve made we’re pushing the development further back to sort of to
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preserve as much of that first as possible uh and then have some view
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corridors into the site and the NES from alamont Creek Park down
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here part of the other piece of this is um in order to offset or or compensate
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for the environmental impacts of the 32 Acre Site the Gaba family also owns this 85
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acre mitigation site and that’ll be set aside and permanently preserved uh for
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um federal and state endangered plant and animal and amphibian species and
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alont Creek here so uh that’ll be under a permanent easement managed over uh
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perpetuity um using funds from an endowment that the developer is going to have to
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establish and that’ll be um sort of enable a
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contiguous um spring Al I preserve in the Springtown preserve area
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there so that’s part of the project um next
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steps I mentioned the the public hearing for the environmental impact report we
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anticipate that could be in January we’ll try and update the schedule as as
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things occur it’s a little it’s fluid so uh this is what we’re anticipating at this
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point uh and then hearings at the Planning Commission and City Council in the spring of
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2024 um and again if those change we’ll try and let you know of the
32:06
schedule um and that at um so we’ll turn it over
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to questions about all of this uh if you have any other questions
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after we leave tonight this is my direct phone line my email address if you’d like to be put on a distribution list to
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be notified of future meetings or project status uh send me an email we’ll
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get you on the master list and make sure you’re contacted that way as well and
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um just talk getting into a question that um Doug man raised or mentioned
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earlier on the the start on the environmental impact report uh was
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2011 uh I was younger then so I you know maybe my memory is off yeah yeah uh so
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the um I I’ll have to clarify the timing of
33:05
that stuff yeah they were they were hired in in 201 in 2011 by the city but the developer asked you to hire them you
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didn’t do a bid process or anything to make sure that you were getting an environmental organization that was on our side they asked you to hire to hire
33:21
them they told you how much you they wanted to pay they paid you the money and you paid the exact same amount of
33:27
money which is not uncommon for agencies in general I don’t hear a question there
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but uh but um just to respond so we’ve used lamford Gregory on a lot of
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projects they’re a reputable environmental consulting firm they’ve done a lot of work in Alam County
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they’ve done a lot of work in the tribe alley uh they’re a reputable firm so is there any reason why you wouldn’t want
33:50
to put this out to bid just get two more environmental firms to chime in on what they’ll do as far as creating the
33:57
environmental impact report that is best for Livermore I don’t know Doug I’d have to go back and look exactly when we made
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that decision have you hired ler Gregory yes they have been hired because last
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time it went to a council for to the council for consent calendar to be approved before you hired L left Gregory
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this time it did not go to consent calendar right why is that because the budget amount is under the amount that
34:22
requires Council approval okay you do know that we want to be informed about all of these things as they come we
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didn’t even okay this is important yeah I get that so I I do want to have other folks an opportunity to I would like
34:35
other folks to ask uh questions we have an opportunity to talk quite a bit uh
34:41
offline and outside of this meeting yeah I have a question when’s Doug’s presentation cuz I want him to do one like that too well when when he’s more
34:48
than welcome to organize a neighborhood meeting well the reason I’m asking is because when you went to court right it
34:53
was the city and the developer versus the citizens right right so when you give a presentation you know I’m under
35:00
the assumption that uh you’re a little bit biased right appreciate that a
35:05
little bit you know so that’s why I give more Credence to Doug when it comes to
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this because I know he’s trying to save property but uh the question I had was uh is this meeting a public uh record
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like public does it go on public record it’s not a officially an official public
35:23
noticed meeting and things we’ll put the um recording online just the recording
35:28
that just ended uh did the can you check for the presentation okay um we we’re making
35:34
another recording the entire night will be available to everybody through review
35:40
good but I mean uh if this meeting is not a matter of public record with the
35:45
city then these comments you’re not the comments that are going to be made here you’re not exactly you know going to be
35:51
held accountable to because the only language that the city seems to understand so far is litigation right so
35:59
things that are going to be said now with the camera turned off that’s just going to go into one year not the other
36:04
right no uh appreciate your um yeah your
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question so we’re doing this to try and convey information and share it and be transparent okay like I said we’re
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obligated to process a development application laferty is applied to move forward we’re evaluating the project to
36:23
on the general plan and the zoning trying to help folks understand the
36:29
process this was done because folks wanted to have a neighborhood meeting a long time ago when the the project
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wasn’t sort of even moving anywhere well I just want to make sure people here
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understand that you know the comments that are going to be made from year on after aren’t going to exactly hold as
36:47
much weight as if you showed up to the city council meeting or something like that right so we would definitely
36:54
encourage you to show up to these we’re not decision makers right ultimately your Planning Commission is the
36:59
recommending body it seems like it seems like everybody I talked to City says that they’re not the decision maker but
37:05
somebody keeps making these decisions so right such as such as proceeding with
37:11
this project so we I think it’s Steve tried to point out this evening yeah we
37:16
have a system in place and all cities do yeah that require City staff to process
37:22
permits yeah many of these requirements are established by the state they’re part of a city’s obligation if you want
37:29
to put a shed in your yard as Steve said you got to come and get a permit if a developer wants to develop a piece of property yeah there’s a permit process
37:36
and we don’t have the authority or ability to say no I’m sorry we don’t want to process your permit well uh on
37:42
the topic of permits I think just last year the city approved a permit to build utilities for Genta right and and that
37:50
permit was never supposed to be approved right so there’s something to be said about the the permits that the city
37:56
approved uh and also the city did end up going to court and losing right those were
38:01
permits you also approved right so there’s something to remember there and also uh
38:08
uh I guess I’ll POS a question you say if I want to build a shed in my backyard then I have to go to the city and ask
38:14
for a permit what if I wanted to build a sky scraper would you allow me to do that you would have to uh come in and
38:21
can I can I you ask me a question okay yeah go ahead well I I I understand the answer already uh it’s too long the the
38:28
the answer should be no uh it’s an absurdity for a reason that what I’m asking
38:34
because I want to point out that the city does have the authority to make
38:39
decisions over what’s built and what’s not so so if you did come to the public counter and say I want to build a SK
38:45
skyscraper we would say no the general plan and Zoning don’t allow it and we would say no and that’s what I was going
38:51
to try to answer for we would say no because our codes establish certain
38:57
regulations about how the land can be used right if if you buy a piece of residential property maybe you have a
39:03
single story home Yeah the code would allow you to build a second story right and so we don’t make those decisions
39:09
those decisions are made by by City councils ultimately that set the rules in place we refer to the codes and and
39:16
review the codes and that’s how we process perits and so that’s what we’re
39:23
doing here as well I think you know Steve pointed out there was long ago a residential designation put in place we
39:29
didn’t decide that we’re just well I mean residential designations that been put in place before like the far property right but then later it was
39:36
overturned and it was preserved right so it’s not like yeah that property still does have a residential designation on
39:42
we’ll probably change it with a general Plan update but we had a willing seller there who wanted to sell the property to
39:47
the city we negotiated transaction there well I think if you’re talking about money willing sellers are you know it’s
39:56
a matter of how much the property is worth so if you’re uh allowing the developer to put initially 76 homes Now
40:05
44 of course if you’re going to allow to destroy the property then the property is worth uh building on right because
40:13
then there’s a incentive financially to actually develop it if you don’t allow
40:19
the developer to uh grate the land and uh destroy the
40:25
natural landscape then uh the seller would become a willing seller because there wouldn’t be
40:31
any profit in developing it so does that make sense it it does so if somebody has
40:37
and and perhaps after we’re done with this question we can let other people ask questions hog in the whole thing you
40:43
want to stand up later we can answer more of your but I see other people going like this around the room so um if
40:50
if somebody has a designation on their property the city can make a change to it but if we remove all economic value
40:56
value from the property we said we’re going to change the designation on this property from residential to open space
41:03
that would be a taking I’m not asking you to do that it’s just when you said in 2013 there was uh 47 homes allowed to
41:10
build on there and then after 10 years of uh consideration you only removed
41:15
three homes to try and mitigate the you know aesthetic and environmental impact
41:21
that you’re going to have on the uh on the neighborhood you only remove three homes that’s not really I’m not so this
41:28
is a I’m going to let other people ask
41:35
nuts so can you tell us then so maybe maybe answer or tell us Steve you had
41:43
mentioned putting up a website can you maybe talk a little bit about that you had said possibly setting up a website
41:50
about this project and then the other thing maybe you guys can share to help people understand the process
41:57
who do we i s email to
42:02
you email to you you going to have time to answer all of those you know what I mean I mean there becomes a an
42:08
overwhelming thing when you’re talking about something on this scale so maybe if you guys could talk to or about how
42:15
we as residents can talk to you guys or send in comments
42:22
maybe not all of us can go to City Council meetings and now we can’t do Zoom because of other stuff um so maybe
42:30
if you guys could speak to that it would be helpful for people to understand how to get their point across or their
42:35
opinion across sure so we have a web page on the the city’s website and I can
42:43
send that link around if you go to the city’s page and search gaven you’ll find
42:49
it uh but we intend to build that up and have it be a little more probably not
42:54
interactive but to to be updated with the latest information uh the latest calendar and
43:02
um again like I said we’ll try and put some some frequently asked questions and answers on there um of course you get
43:10
all overwhelming and it you know email me all day and that wouldn’t be very productive but um hope you don’t do that
43:18
but uh you know in the early early on when save the hill group first met I met with Cindy Andrews Marne and and Helen
43:27
Nelson at the counter many times and tried to make sure they had the latest
43:32
information that was accurate about the project how to participate and so part of our job as
43:40
public servants is to provide information to the public and so you
43:46
know I’m happy to meet uh meet and talk about it share the documents that we
43:53
have and we start getting them uh we’ll have a team here that’ll uh also be
43:59
available to um to help with that and um
44:05
I forgot this the second part of your the you said web page and then how to oh how to get oh who to talk to yeah and I
44:14
think your city council members uh are all have public phone phone numbers and
44:21
emails those are very effective they’re the ones making the decision your planning Commissioners also have email
44:28
contacts and uh phone numbers on the web I think their phone numbers are on the um City’s website so sharing your
44:36
concerns with them many of them will meet uh in person if that if um your
44:44
schedules can line up but having you have access to local officials and
44:49
that’s one uh I think upside of working in a local government is we have
44:54
accountability to the people people we serve and so do our decision makers so Steve you’ve hired lere Gregory if
45:00
people have questions for lere Gregory would you encourage them to ask them and should lere Gregory uh then give them a
45:07
reasonable response no any kind of questions to L Gregory particular should come through me why is that cuz we’re
45:13
administering the contract okay could we change the contract else um that’s you
45:19
see that’s the thing the contract didn’t go to council so we couldn’t review it to uh guard against things like this
45:25
because lampier Gregory should probably be open to receiving information from everybody they’re doing an environmental
45:31
impact report and they will all the comments that come in will go to them
45:37
especially when the public comment period is open if you have questions that you would like pose to them I will
45:43
send those over and we can do our best to answer them that’s all public information you’ve requested
45:50
records uh we have to produce emails there’s you know all that stuff stuff is
45:56
public information and you do a pretty good job on the public records request I will say appreciate that yeah U Michelle
46:03
sorry the other question I have too is the contractor that you you’ve
46:09
contracted with to do the eir they’re the same ones that did it before correct yes so I guess my
46:17
question not specifically to you but to the city would be why would you hire the
46:23
same per contract with the same company that it got knocked out through
46:30
Court I mean why would you why would you use the same company when obviously their
46:36
original one was flawed and got for better lack of better way to say it thrown out by the court and now it has
46:43
to be redone so why why would the city and if you can even answer this but why would the city do that why would they
46:49
hire the same person that was part of the original problem if do my best to
46:56
answer that Paul maybe you can add uh but um part of it has to do what they they’ve did a lot of work on the project
47:04
they’re familiar with the area they wrote the environmental impact report that’s uh um a
47:12
fairly timec consuming and expensive process to start from square one with a
47:17
consultant we’d have to go back to square one basically but maybe you’d get a better result so the the main reason
47:24
why that was spot was a uh I mean the the appell court founded flawed was the
47:30
reason that was mentioned in here we didn’t look at open space conservation
47:36
funding to preserve the property and that’s the first time across the state
47:41
that’s ever been brought up in court and it’s the first decision around that it a
47:48
surprise so um it’s that’s what lamford Gregor will be looking to uh remedy
47:55
other than that all the other information is the same they have all that research all the technical studies
48:02
giving that uh yes sir in the back
48:07
sorry if the seller was if the land owner was willing to sell you have an estimate on how much it would
48:13
cost it’s um all always negotiated of course it’s Urban value with the land
48:19
use designations on it now we’re estimating it to be between $ 15 and $20 million that’s so much
48:27
about that’d be pretty substantial right it’s more than these people in the room could get to collect if they wanted to
48:32
buy it and do with their speak for yourself well I mean if you feel so strongly about it maybe collect some
48:38
money and buy it got it sorry gentleman in the
48:48
back sorry did the land owner give you a reason why she doesn’t want to sell to the
48:53
city uh they are one in contract with ly
48:59
the G and I st have you ever have you spoken to them have you spoken to the
49:07
ladies so I’m going to answer the gentleman’s question in the
49:12
back um the gabena family has owned lots of property out here you probably some
49:18
of you folks here live on land that they owned at one point in time and sold to
49:24
Developers the city tried to buy the property the 85 acre property back in
49:30
2006 and seven or so had it appraised I thought I had a deal with the the
49:38
gals um their Uncle put the gash on it both times because he said he didn’t
49:45
want to sell it for conservation purposes he wanted to develop it so that’s kind of their track record of
49:52
their history um yeah he died in right right we have a couple of letters from
49:59
uh the um Elder owners now who also have a
50:05
um trustee who say they’re not interested in selling the property to the city for conservation or who’s the
50:13
trustee it would be great if you’d stop interrupting me Doug you’re leaving things out I don’t remember the name of
50:19
the trustee off the top of my head but I’d be happy to get you their name please do yes sir so let me try to give you
50:27
some history of the environmental impact may I come up to the board sir and I
50:34
want to say thank you for your presentation I thought you did a really good job in laying it out thank you I am
50:39
Pro development but not for this project what you didn’t see and what you’re not talking to is that in this area I’ve
50:46
been a resident here along with my entire family since 1999 and our home
50:51
was just being built now were you aware that this this Hill that you want to
50:56
build on is due to an upwelling of oil are you aware of that that just
51:03
continue I want to make sure you guys got this because you’re going to be a processor so please let me finish the
51:10
presentation what you guys are going to do you’re just going to process information you’re basically an operations guy that’s going to take
51:16
information in and filter it out and hopefully people will come back and get us answers to what we asked for but last
51:22
time they were very dismissive very dismissive and then it only took the
51:27
court to overturn it but in this area you know that there was an oil spill due
51:34
to a fracture in the storm drains right and that filled up that entire area that
51:41
had that been lit up that whole side over there on Edgewater every one of those people
51:48
would had to move out and that probably would have come back up to the storm drains and taken those ownes out you’re aware of that you had to go back in and
51:55
you had to reseal it so if this home or this home site is an upwelling of oil
52:02
and you sorry about that I don’t know how you’re going to bring that back but if that is due to an upwelling and
52:07
you’re going to put in those storm drains where’s the storm drain is going to come through right back into that
52:13
area and if there’s a leak in there you had to go back in and reseal it and you
52:18
had to spend thousands and thousands of dollars per day to filter out that water
52:24
that had all that o in it those are the things we want to make sure that you see and that’s a concern of mine because I’m
52:30
less than a tenth of a mile from where that spilled was I don’t think a lot of the other folks were here but since 99
52:37
and to include the Greystone environmental impact had oil listed in there to include some
52:44
carcinogens the next question was in that development what happens when you come into the filter and out of all of
52:51
that development what’s going to go down to the alkaline silk sink which is further down talking with Pam the other
52:57
day at Zone 7 meeting that’s part of core of engineers
53:02
are you guys taken this to the core of engineers too to have discussion of what that impact is going to be when you go
53:07
to build those are the type of things I want to make sure looked at and then we
53:13
talked about Mitigation Of overdevelopment we got a simple question
53:19
that was asked if you went back in 1964 down south in Southern California
53:25
Diamond Bar California was Outback just like Livermore 10 years later you go down and
53:32
take a snapshot of Livermore or Diamond bar now it’s freeways coming through
53:37
homes no open space and here you got biological issues or the ecological
53:43
issues and some of those went away the burrowing out the red the the the red
53:48
tail fox which is now moved all the way down I believe to that alkaline sink that used to be up in this area so those
53:55
are the things I want to make sure you guys are addressing but again is this truly the right place to do it because
54:02
the more you open this up and you’re saying you want to preserve the biological ecological area
54:09
you think about all those kids are going to come out and going to walk along that Creek like what they started to do here
54:15
what’s going to happen down there at the creek it will no longer be a preserve no you don’t send the email get
54:23
address I’m sorry email it won’t get
54:28
addressed so there’s a number of pieces that you raised in their geomorphology of the
54:34
area presence of oil or uh yeah presence of oil basically um federal army cor
54:45
Engineers um the sites had extensive first of all
54:50
we of course knew about the uh oil issues out there um
54:56
required extra testing below the site and
55:01
adjacent all that information is part of the environmental impact report they didn’t find any oil deposits there we
55:08
still know there’s an issue out there the site is the developer is required to
55:16
um uh specially design their pipes so they’re sealed from allowing oil to seep
55:21
into their drainage and their water they have to have um separators in the event
55:28
that it it does get there somehow they also have to get permits
55:34
from the Army Corps of Engineers bet US fishing Wildlife US
55:39
fishing game Sorry us fish and wildlife service state department fishing game uh
55:46
and Regional water quality control board in addition to what they’re doing for the environmental impact report so yes
55:53
they’ll have to square away with those agencies too um you am I miss and then uh oh in
56:01
terms of how the hills were formed there I you know I don’t know if that’s due to other there are active faults and things
56:08
out there I’m not I don’t I don’t know that it’s what the particular reason is
56:13
if it’s presence of oil that made that uh upheave sorry that just no to the
56:21
gentleman’s point though I mean we’re trying to answer your questions tonight but we would encourage you to send us emails and you know project manager for
56:29
this development instead of having five or six people you have to send it to
56:34
yeah is there just one sure his his his contact information
56:40
is I have a few cards not one for everybody uh yes sir so obviously
56:48
there’s a lot of passion that surrounds this project it’s been going on for a long time there’s a lot of uh back and
56:56
forth going on we were involved prior to when it got approved last time we went
57:02
to the city council meeting you know we invested with the people in the neighborhood it seems like there’s a lot
57:08
of hostility even now you guys feel very uncomfortable for whatever reason I
57:13
don’t know why that is but it seems like you’re very defensive and it seems like
57:19
instead of it being a collaboration it seems like we’re just talking to each other and not really coming to a
57:25
conclusion that’s best for this neighborhood and for Livermore in general I’ll tell you what when we went
57:31
to the city council when they approved it laferty was there he was aggressive he was arrogant he was you know just
57:39
very very matter of fact and did not give a you know wrap about it and I don’t feel like the city council really
57:46
listened to the you know the neighborhood as well so what we’re seeing right now is almost just another
57:54
representation of that same experience we had you know four years ago when this got you know when it got approved and it
58:00
turned into what it is how can we make this better how can we resolve this you
58:06
know in a better fashion I mean from the standpoint of what kind of changes could
58:11
be made to this I mean you talked about the hawk Bridge you know that should still be in play that was 10 15 years
58:17
ago when some other neighbors who are probably not even here now fought to get that removed okay and so having now just
58:25
one access point to this new neighborhood is presents a problem for us that that live in this general area
58:32
we’ve got you know a lot of traffic issues we got speed issues we have access issues things like that so
58:38
there’s just more to this right now that I think is going and I just feel like it’s just going to be Ram roted again
58:44
you’ve got an agenda going right now we’re going to be voting on this real soon and really we haven’t discussed the
58:50
project again it it it seems to me it’s a new project not a not a project that’s you know been morphed over multiple you
58:57
know iterations of it so how do we how do we solve that does anybody else feel that here if I may first of all to
59:03
repeat citizens for balance growth doesn’t believe this hill really can be urbanized so what the court wants the
59:11
city to do and what they seem to be well in a way avoiding doing is fully examine
59:19
the no project alternative you know we we’re not we’re not seeing
59:26
aggression uh in in terms of uh you’ve never spoken with the
59:31
owners um you hired Lam Fe Gregory without telling anybody um who’s Lao by the
59:39
way that’s a question for you Lao you never even heard of Lao Lao paid you
59:45
$54,000 for the E process it we I don’t know what Lao is mar Maran do you know
59:51
what lafo is La communities you know no laugh out you see you don’t even know
59:57
who you’re getting money from they pay it’s on your receipt that you sent
1:00:05
me no it’s not no no sir it’s a separate company it’s a separate company
1:00:11
now sometimes people do this to establish shell companies to obscure and
1:00:17
confuse what’s going on behind the seats there’s a lot to talk about regarding
1:00:22
the no project alternative and that is what I believe is going to float to the surface and end up with something
1:00:29
similar to what happened with the Farber property the parallels with the Farber property are unbelievable Farber took 15
1:00:37
years to fail the zoning was exactly the same as gent Hill we’re now at year 13
1:00:45
so perhaps we’re a couple of years from putting this to bed and keeping it open space we’ll buy the land done Mr Man
1:00:55
we had a question over here but to your point I answered
1:01:00
it but you did from but that’s part that’s part of the problem is that you
1:01:06
guys are fighting amongst each other we’re feeling this tension out here and I respect all you guys but there’s
1:01:12
there’s you guys have your agenda he has his agenda we are caught in the middle of all this and it just seems like we’re
1:01:18
not communicating well our agenda is to try to share information appreciate that
1:01:25
andar your your comments and concerns we do care about comments and
1:01:31
concerns live here in Livermore too so you know that the process is is handled appropriately professionally and and you
1:01:39
know based on where we are right now we are intending to look fully at the no project alternative and all of this out
1:01:46
why are you only intending to and haven’t done that already we are in process why is that why are you
1:01:51
presenting us a project that’s ready to go that’s going to be approved within a couple of months and you haven’t even looked at the no project alternative I
1:01:57
mean what kind of attitude is that we were folks were saying you guys are hiding stuff this is an effort to try
1:02:04
and give you information of where we’re at right now but it’s the same thing it was four years ago did hi it the
1:02:10
environmental evaluation process has has just started yeah yeah but it looks like
1:02:16
the project’s already ready to go yeah that’s way I feel too how are you just starting the environmental uh assessment
1:02:23
of of the land if you already have a project to present to us you already have the units play the project
1:02:30
applicant has told us that they are resubmitting the same project it’s not
1:02:35
changed right so that’s the project that we’ve been given that’s the application that we’ve received okay and so we are
1:02:42
beginning the environmental review go uh Mr first and then uh lady
1:02:48
there it said that they have a contract with laferty is that an open-ended
1:02:53
contract or is that has a Time certain contract I I have never seen it I do
1:02:59
know that they you know laugh laties pay them uh money over time
1:03:06
to keep the contract going that’s usually how land deals work L pays them separately just clarify that lafy pay
1:03:14
has an individual Rel relationship with lampier Gregory and they get paid by
1:03:20
paying you and then you pay lampier Gregory as well correct I believe that’s the
1:03:25
case uh I don’t know what the contract looks like between and property owner so
1:03:31
my question basically is if if it was a a Time certain contract and there was a 10-year contract or something is there
1:03:38
any hope for us that it would the contract would run out and the women might be open to other Alternatives no
1:03:46
we we’ve asked several times that sh he said we’re willing to ask again and to try to engage um and and and see if that
1:03:54
answer changes I’m also the SI Club rep for the
1:04:00
open space committee we’ve discussed this project a number of times we have the money to help purchase it but again
1:04:07
we need a willing seller but there is money
1:04:12
available yes hi uh I’m a new uh resident of the area so learning and uh
1:04:20
my question is uh where can I learn about uh uh
1:04:27
environmental aspects uh aspects of this development about possible problems and
1:04:33
the way they suggest to mitigate them so like any website any report I can read
1:04:41
sure we do have copies of the document electronically I can share we’ll get
1:04:47
that posted up on the website so you can look at it um and it has all the
1:04:53
technical studies biology geology um drainage traffic all that
1:05:00
stuff if you really if you want to look at all that yeah so um I’ll get the
1:05:05
message out to the group uh when we post that up on the website um we’ll also put
1:05:12
up the past uh plans and the planning commission reports and things like that
1:05:17
that that summarize some of that stuff okay thank you thanks uh in the back oh very back the
1:05:26
uh the website is it just the city of lore website City Livermore
1:05:33
ca.gov okay and search G venon that’ll take you to the web
1:05:39
page yes
1:05:44
sir I have a couple of questions but they’re all one one word answers um how
1:05:50
much is uh impact fees for the city of Livermore per lot in this
1:05:56
development I don’t know the answer to it’s like 100,000 it’s usually I suspect
1:06:03
it’s more than 100,000 yes but those impact fees cover the cost of providing
1:06:09
service the city does not make money on those what when are they collected
1:06:15
they’re collected typically at building permit issuance so I’m sorry I I want to add on
1:06:23
what you just said just really quickly you said it goes to the city maintenance I thought the project was going to be I
1:06:30
didn’t think the city was going to maintain that property it covers the cost of service so what service though
1:06:38
so we police and get firemen so you’re not specifically same
1:06:45
service for that development I mean as far as um streets and and sewer and no
1:06:54
so there are variety of fees right that are uh conglomerated into at one point
1:06:59
there’s a school impact fee for example and Zone 7 has a fee there’s an impervious surface fee there’s a fee uh
1:07:06
for processing the building permit a variety of different fees by government code we cannot charge more than it costs
1:07:14
to provide whatever service is incorporated into that fee is
1:07:19
that help answer that question or Steve you have any else
1:07:24
no uh then right up here sir so following up on the question about the
1:07:30
environmental impact report um on page
1:07:35
or slide number 20 there is the question of is the property contiguous to
1:07:41
existing protected lands or does it link protected lands now sorry can you say that again
1:07:48
yeah so on slide number 20 there is a
1:07:54
question of is the property contiguous to existing protected lands or does it link protected
1:08:02
lands now looking at the
1:08:10
map on slide number
1:08:20
28 oh there we go just uh west of the site the project the
1:08:28
proposed site isn’t that a some kind of a preserve Wildlife
1:08:35
Preserve yes that’s owned it’s the gavan wetlands preservable why isn’t it l such
1:08:42
in the map I don’t have lots of preserve
1:08:48
properties I just have and then and then and then there is Brushy Peak yeah east of Lain
1:08:55
Road okay another another uh area that is feated
1:09:01
as environment sensitive okay and there is a
1:09:06
corridor on the west side of of the project site that links the two so my
1:09:12
question is what does the uh the the environmental impact report have to say
1:09:18
about about that do you know
1:09:24
about a wildlife Corridor yeah I mean about the question on on slide number 20 is the property
1:09:32
continuous to existing protected lands yeah so the the the criteria on slide 20
1:09:38
are in the settlement agreement to determine if the money can be used for the property I think you could could
1:09:45
easily find the property meets these criteria that it that it
1:09:52
is adjacent to environmentally protected areas right so what does the
1:10:00
environmental report have to say about time their money can be used and our money can be used the money is not the
1:10:06
issue the issue I’m not asking about the money I’m asking about you know what does the environmental impact report say
1:10:13
about it because it seems to me like they over they’ve overlooked that if if it’s if it’s listed as um
1:10:21
well a criteria for rejecting this
1:10:26
site for development yeah my belief is that there are going to be a lot of
1:10:32
environmental details that were that people did not have the wherewithal to
1:10:38
put into the report that are going in now and it’s going to make it much more difficult to even think about developing
1:10:44
that Hill okay good good so so the the environmental impact report does discuss
1:10:51
the biological value of the property it’s relationship to other land yeah
1:10:56
Wildlife movement so I’m I’m curious because I haven’t read the report what what does it have to say about that
1:11:03
question you how does it answer that question uh it’s they’re going to do a
1:11:09
new report yeah I’d like to get access to the report as well
1:11:15
following prev an old report too that’s not going to be what it’s going to be
1:11:20
and but the I heard something about the report being roked the prev report the approval of it
1:11:28
was taken away not the reported stealth is still there but the the city City’s
1:11:33
approval of it was taken away or yeah the the approval of the whole project
1:11:39
was wased right okay set aside is this
1:11:44
Steve I have a real question right here we have a question yes um I’m a mom of two young children and I’m planning on
1:11:49
raising my kids here and you mentioned in the current project lafy has a school SCH fund set aside can you tell me what
1:11:56
that fund entails or where that what it is sure each residential development has
1:12:02
to pay a school mitigation fee and that’s one of those impact fees that the gentleman brought up um it’s based on
1:12:11
square footage of a house I believe and basically goes to cover the cost of
1:12:16
providing school um services for the um
1:12:22
K through 12 in the school district so if our sorry if our current school is pretty
1:12:30
much at capacity where are these children going to be going to school yeah they’ll um do they build
1:12:38
pods and put them on campus that’s been one way the district has addressed some
1:12:44
uh when folks decide to go to a school because you can take your kids to any school in the Livermore School District
1:12:50
I believe thought I thought that not anymore oh sorry yeah no it’s okay it just changed last year so those children
1:12:59
uh will be if they’re K through a five will be going here but we’re full yes so they will be going to school in
1:13:07
so we we did just have a meeting recently with the superintendent and he did say that children were allowed to go
1:13:13
to other schools as long as there were openings in those schools I mean there may be some schools that are full and at
1:13:19
capacity and they can’t accept new children but if a child wanted to go across town to another school and that
1:13:25
school was open he did tell us that that was allowed so we we’re full you’re full of
1:13:32
this we right and so the district can use that money to build new classrooms
1:13:38
uh to build new facilities it really is intended to be for construction of facilities and so that would be an
1:13:45
option for the school district how many homes 38 no 44 44 homes so you’re
1:13:52
probably you know looking at 40 to 60 children somewhere in that
1:13:58
Reg Steve is the 76 home sorry uh let’s go this is quick Steve is the 76 home
1:14:04
plan off the table I don’t yes okay yeah um uh sorry go to you the other thing I
1:14:11
want to make sure you put on your timeline is that pg& tore up a portion
1:14:16
of Bear Creek to lay an upgrade wire why wasn’t that up on our timeline to
1:14:22
support that project well I mean you’re if we’re going to be transparent yeah that was
1:14:30
being done after it was denied and yet did the city do that and who’s paid who
1:14:36
paid for that we did probably through pg& but everything in there was told
1:14:41
stop and it was supposed to be an upgrade right I’m sorry and no one really seems to know who requested it
1:14:47
and who approved it if you read the articles that have been published one group says well I got the application
1:14:52
from this group but I didn’t know it was gent and then the other group said well I knew it was gent but then we didn’t send it on and it’s just a whole bunch
1:14:59
of finger yeah it’s a lot of people called pg& they just said oh next thing you know I think they got lot of phone
1:15:06
calls says we don’t know so I I don’t have that information prepared today because but I’m just curious how much of
1:15:12
that was actually laid as part of that Foundation to bring
1:15:17
power to that site how much of that was actually done I I don’t think that uh
1:15:24
any new lines were actually laid and kept in place but and I don’t have the information today but we can provide
1:15:30
that for you if you can provide some of that on the website yeah I want to clarify something in regards to How the
1:15:38
City Works and uh you know I understand you guys uh maybe offended by my you know
1:15:47
belligerant or but um when I spoke to the city regarding this pg& line that
1:15:54
was being put in without the project being approved I mean it took so much effort just to get something that shouldn’t be happening and something
1:16:00
that people shouldn’t even be paying for to you know get the head Engineers of PG
1:16:06
and the city out there and to get them to stop that it’s ridiculous it’s it’s embarrassing for the city and you know
1:16:13
the people that I’m talking to these head engineers and so forth they’re collecting like up to half a m in
1:16:19
salaries and this is the kind of thing that goes on right so so uh to your
1:16:25
question who approved it uh the person that approved the project or that pg& uh
1:16:31
line was her name is far LS right and she maybe you know her but she uh she is
1:16:38
in charge of this Genta project and she’s in charge of all encroachment permits in the city so for the city to
1:16:43
say that oh we didn’t know this and they didn’t know that it’s just another lie and it’s unfortunately it seems that’s
1:16:50
the way the city tends to work that’s why I want to I guess make a point again out
1:16:56
of this not even being a matter of public record because these things are being said and then it just gets dusted
1:17:04
under the mat it doesn’t really I mean did anybody get a uh held accountable for that PJ screw up anybody no right do
1:17:12
you know no you don’t right even though you’re the project manager for this project right so so uh errors are made
1:17:21
right yeah expensive errors though right and does anybody pay for that other than us no that’s the thing and there’s no
1:17:29
there’s no really there’s not really a remedy to it there’s nothing that you could say it’s just it’s it it would be more of a uh you know action speak
1:17:38
louder than words thing you know so you may say things to me that we are all human beings but at the end of the day
1:17:45
uh you know nothing gets changed so sadly I trying to answer your question yeah okay go go ahead answer so UHS
1:17:53
happen sometimes right and when when that happens we go back and look at what happened in the system some changes were
1:17:59
made I believe in the processing and the review to make sure that wouldn’t happen again um yeah you know what sorry to you
1:18:07
know what the engineers told me at first when I brought that up they they they lied to me and they said that that line
1:18:13
was being laid as a general Improvement to the neighborhood and I looked at the permits myself and it was clearly being
1:18:20
laid parallel to the existing utility just to support a project that’s not even approved so you know you say
1:18:27
mistakes happen and we’re human beings but this is not a matter of mistakes that’s just a flat out lie right
1:18:32
Professional Engineers certified by the board are lying to me directly to make sure that things that shouldn’t be
1:18:38
happening are happening at the expense of uh taxpayer dollars right so that’s
1:18:44
not you know so I I doubt that anybody was lying to you oh do you want me to
1:18:49
pull the emails up and and go back to the conversation I could show it to you but I know you don’t really care so it’s
1:18:56
okay see things he we here here’s the thing we we do care and we are trying to
1:19:02
have a conversation with you the gentleman in the back asked us about having a simple conversation I’m trying
1:19:07
to do that it’s challenging yeah it is with me with me it’s especially challenging yeah it tends to be that way
1:19:13
you understand you understand that that um challenges are trust when stuff like
1:19:20
this happens and they go oh it’s a mistake I saw a quote from the G who mentioned
1:19:27
and she said that her quote well I don’t want I don’t know exact but her point
1:19:32
was I check these permits you know inside and out over and over and then
1:19:39
later on it’s like well I made a mistake you know that’s that’s and and this is
1:19:44
got to be tough thing for you guys but yet we trust what we being told and it’s
1:19:49
really hard to do that when things brought up that we weren’t aware
1:19:55
of and then when we me but when it was caught that that
1:20:03
they were trying to put a line in there and then it’s just said as a mistake so what if we didn’t call out
1:20:09
that thing would that where where would that mistake be now that mistake would be lines going in for a development that
1:20:17
from really hasn’t been approved is that right so we ones that are hurt by that
1:20:24
and then you’ve got to understand you know a gentleman back there said there’s
1:20:30
tension and all that well you got to understand that that
1:20:35
that these things that have happened are to our detriment and if we
1:20:42
don’t find them then we could get screwed so you got to understand that
1:20:49
why we’re coming out this way because there’s been mistakes made and it’s like
1:20:55
but it’s not it’s not it’s a big deal and as this goes
1:21:01
on it’s hard to trust do you understand that can you guys understand that I do so so uh okay
1:21:11
so it is you know I don’t know if I can have a different word than unfortunate but very
1:21:16
unfortunate that that happened obviously right and and the last thing we want to do is undermine trust with the community
1:21:22
we’re that happen so I mean it really has to be on the money when you guys
1:21:28
tell us stuff because then we find out it’s not quite what it’s being we’re
1:21:33
being told and so now we’re like is this is this real is this real is is there
1:21:39
something here that we haven’t been aware of or on purpose
1:21:45
not aware of something again so so we are trying to come before you today and do the best that we can to
1:21:52
provide Pro you with information we’re happy to have an ongoing dialogue with you and continue the conversation we’re
1:21:58
going to do our very best and I’m sorry that things have happened before that undermine trust you know we’re going to
1:22:03
try to rebuild that with you and and have a a dialogue and help you to be
1:22:09
aware of you know all the possible actions and opportunities within this process right um and you that there was
1:22:18
a second spill anything else that we can do you let us know
1:22:23
so were you aware there was a second oil spill in that same location after you guys sealed it and the and the fire
1:22:29
department knew nothing of it they didn’t know about the first one in the healing and I walked out to the fire
1:22:35
department and I said were you aware this happened a few years back and they
1:22:41
they were unaware so my question there is when we’re talking transparency is there Communications within all
1:22:46
Departments of the city being told that all of this conversation we have when
1:22:51
you finished your presid presentation is probably not going to be brought up because there’s nothing in there
1:22:57
recorded to grab all the conversations except potentially the note tier but there were some other things my biggest
1:23:03
concern is the welfare of my family and the neighbors that are there because of that oil spill and you’re saying there
1:23:09
was no oil to found over that way with the up welding you’re going to put storm drains in they going to go down lower
1:23:15
that’s going to connect to right where we’re at that’s my concern and with with
1:23:20
what was presented before uh not so sure I’m kind of trusting these guys that are coming out to do the environmental
1:23:26
impact how are you ensure that’s going to be unbiased and who’s going to be held responsible if something goes the
1:23:34
wrong way that’s the question accountability so I you got to know you did a great job up here in presenting in
1:23:41
the timeline that you had but how much of this information that you’re getting here from everybody was actually
1:23:46
provided to you to include in that timeline so part of that is are you really listening to us and it may not
1:23:54
have been you at that time but somebody was there because I can tell you that the person that was there previously was
1:24:00
at this last meeting at the at the presentation over there by Costco by the
1:24:06
by the city of Livermore she’s retired it was Pam and she we kind of went over this entire discussion and what was
1:24:14
going to happen at this meeting and I said it it sounds like there’s nothing really been done to change to really
1:24:21
bring change and to step forward and say accountability and we’re going to find
1:24:28
somebody out there that’s really going to do that environmental impact potentially we can we can
1:24:33
trust to include everything else you’ve talked about what about it used to be a
1:24:40
preserve it used to be what’s going to happen to it now and if you think that
1:24:47
putting a foot bridge over there and emergency access boy that’s going to open that up so much for Altimont Creek
1:24:53
and anything that’s that’s what is that east east of the Vasco Road that’s not
1:24:58
going to be a preserve anymore I sorry which used to be a preserve the one that I
1:25:04
point yeah so appreciate those com got fol waiting
1:25:10
in the back
1:25:16
um yeah this project has been going on forever I mean it just seems like it’s dragging on dragging on do you all have
1:25:23
a good idea of the C ciens of Livermore who actually live here um raised
1:25:30
families here are more people opposed to this project or are they for it do you
1:25:35
all know that because I would think as y’all’s you know serving us y’all would do
1:25:41
what’s best for us and not for a developer and the money so I’m saying
1:25:47
more people are against this project why can’t y’all do all you can to kill this project so we can move on I have two
1:25:54
kids they’ve gone to the school they’re going to the the the schools are overcrowded you cannot fix
1:26:00
infrastructure issues already when this is being built it’s going to be too late it’s like trying to wind the highway
1:26:05
it’s just no time we have traffic issues when they’re building right back here and my kids are playing what are you
1:26:12
going to be doing about all the dust blowing around because there’s high winds up there is this all in the environmental impact so yes we are very
1:26:20
passionate about it because we live here we’re raising our families and we don’t want this project to proceed and I want
1:26:25
you the city to do everything thing they can do to kill it if you haven’t even talk to the owners in good faith I mean
1:26:34
that’s the first thing you should do say hey the people want to preserve it and appeal to their emotions all it’s all
1:26:41
about money too but if you can you should be able to find out how much La
1:26:46
is going to pay them if we have funds in the I don’t care if it’s going to drain it if the funds are there just pay it
1:26:52
and because that’s what the community wants I’m so tired of this project we’ve
1:26:58
been trying to save this hill over and over I enjoy hike hiking this hill with my family every freaking day so you’re
1:27:05
trying to take that away and we don’t want it list listen I’m them yes you’re
1:27:12
you’re you’re for it that’s fine but I think you’re the minority I probably am in this room I agree yeah CU we all live
1:27:18
here well I live here too but appreciate those we we we’ like sorry I’m asking
1:27:24
them a question on what are they’re doing about trying like I said I agree it’s not it’s their property but if
1:27:30
we’re willing to pay them the same amount and it’s all about money it’s all it is they will to sell that’s a
1:27:36
different story problem they’re they’re selling it to lafy right it’s to being develop it’s the same thing it’s money
1:27:41
so how much money are La going to pay them the city pay
1:27:47
them well focus it on us that’s great um we’re we’re doing our best to convey
1:27:54
information to you about the project we will uh we’re going to be updating our city council we do that through written
1:28:02
uh updates on how this meeting went sort of what the sentiments were what the points were um I know you know it
1:28:13
doesn’t um it’s clear that most of the community surrounding the hill doesn’t want it developed okay we understand
1:28:21
that um so then shouldn’t that be the first thing that you take into account before
1:28:26
doing everything else I mean the people that live here that’s first right and then everything
1:28:32
else so I want to go back to uh gentleman there and the uh Mr first then
1:28:37
up front here are you going to answer that later or what is that what what
1:28:42
what is that you moving on to the other gentleman shouldn’t that be the first thing that you consider when it comes to
1:28:48
building yeah I understand so when it comes to building shouldn’t be the first thing the people that already live there
1:28:55
and are impacted I I understand you’re tired you I’m just but but that’s that’s a
1:29:01
real question you know isn’t that the first thing that you consider the people there that are impacting so if you’ll
1:29:08
let us answer that question we will and then we can move to the next person about that okay so so we do obviously
1:29:14
care about the community we live here in the community we care you said you’d let me answer the
1:29:20
question in the community where I mean I live here by the hill so okay let’s go
1:29:25
to the next person I he passed a gentleman here and then I want to uh represent a different position here guys
1:29:31
cuz maybe the community around here doesn’t want this development but I want to represent the people who aren’t here
1:29:37
and that’s the people who are going to move in here right if you go back before we had the Bluffs and we had alut Creek
1:29:43
if farmer Frick put up his hand and said I don’t want the I want to save the Bluffs I want to save ultim Creek you know what it wouldn’t have been
1:29:49
developed right I’ve got four kids you’ve got two kids we have a housing crisis for God’s sakes right hey let me
1:29:56
talk we have a housing crisis my kids I’ve three of them already moved out of the house none of them could live in
1:30:02
Livermore anymore right they can’t afford I can’t afford to hire employees because they can’t afford to live here
1:30:09
yes this isn’t going to solve it but let’s let the people let’s re think about the people who are going to live
1:30:15
here who are going to be our neighbors who are going to be great people maybe they can even live in Livermore yes
1:30:20
thank you very much for Pres You’ beening of they feel hostile you guys have been attacking them for 2 hours for
1:30:27
an hour and a half here anyway thank you very much for a great job that the
1:30:32
community does not feel the same way as all these people here do thank God that there’s other people thank you question
1:30:40
for me sorry sorry we have question uh question from over here on the side yeah
1:30:48
um guys progress is inevitable it’s going happen whether we like it or not
1:30:53
we’re just population population population we voted down I don’t I’ve
1:30:58
been here since 01 we voted down I believe it was measure B 15 years ago
1:31:04
they were going to give water treatment plant they were going to give a million dollars towards a new high school they
1:31:11
were going to give a new fire department and we voted it down so our
1:31:16
responsibility is to make sure what’s being built is is going to impact us the least
1:31:23
amount but it’s going to happen whether we like it or not you know it’s just progress we voted down Ikea because we
1:31:30
didn’t like the color and we we thought it was going to have too much traffic well the traffic’s coming by anyway well
1:31:36
we’re not getting the economic U proceeds from but my kids are going to be right over here my kids are here too
1:31:42
here I live right down the street for long it took me 5 minutes to walk be Modesto no I yeah it’s true actually cuz
1:31:50
um my kids can’t I actually can’t [Music]
1:31:55
so we have to grow all right appreciate that car our water um I want to make sure our
1:32:03
water so I know we already have a water issue we be I know you’ve gone from 77
1:32:09
to 40 something just great so the lots are bigger less I think that’s great
1:32:15
lots are bigger less houses how is it impact our water supp so yeah
1:32:22
our water is a regional thing we do get our water from a wholesaler which is
1:32:28
Zone 7 comes from the Delta they sell it to the city um here and we also buy
1:32:35
water from cow water they they have um back in our last General Plan update
1:32:43
said okay yes Livermore we’ll have enough water for you to build out your general plant we’re going we’re going
1:32:50
through that again now uh that type of analysis in our general Plan update now to look at Water Supply
1:32:57
um especially given the the climate and um drought and
1:33:04
um so if this project were approved there would be enough water what Steve
1:33:10
is mentioning is Citywide we’re also looking at additional locations for Change and opportunities for growth and
1:33:17
the state requires us to plan for a certain amount of housing so we’re looking at that in water
1:33:22
more holistically but for this project if it were approved this next time it
1:33:27
would be enough but what is he being change from the existing system now the
1:33:33
existing the water would stay the same basically is what you’re saying the water the existing water
1:33:40
supply would not be impacted okay um Carol hi I’m Carol I just have
1:33:49
hopefully a relatively quick question question and comment and it seems like the major point is the lowliness of the
1:33:56
seller so what I want to point out is is it kosher for the city to contact the
1:34:05
real estate broker who I assume is the representative of the ladies um and copy a letter to the
1:34:14
ladies saying that you would like to have a meeting with the real estate
1:34:20
broker and the ladies included just to discuss what their
1:34:26
concerns are and maybe something can get
1:34:31
resolved since you’re also talking to the ladies so I was wondering if that was
1:34:39
would be kosher and that in the letter you said you would say that you want to
1:34:44
understand their point yeah I think we can express to
1:34:50
them that there other groups or folks who would like to talk with them maryan what do you think short answer yes I I’m
1:34:56
sorry I can’t Maran what do you think sorry I can’t comment without my giving me permission without can can can we go
1:35:06
have tea with the lady no you cannot You’ been very hostile to them and to me
1:35:14
and things that you said in the newspaper and I really do not want to
1:35:20
talk to you anymore right there we have time for a couple more
1:35:26
questions our folks are here to shut down the so s here and then we’ll finish
1:35:31
up in the back there so I think I think there’s a u General plan meeting uh
1:35:37
coming up on the 15th at cochi will this be covered there or is this Beyond is
1:35:42
that meeting Beyond because that I think you said General plans are 10 to 20 years out so this is within 10 years for
1:35:52
sure is that the thinking at this point uh this this or could it go into could it spill
1:35:59
into the 10 to 20 year out window so to speak since it’s gone on for 15 years 13
1:36:08
years whatever I’ve heard today so so the Community Wide meeting that we’re having is focused on other areas of the
1:36:15
city that are specifically called out as Focus areas uh and that’s the that’s the general gist of that meeting but we’re
1:36:23
in the midst of an Outreach process and you can provide us with any feedback that you’d like about growth or change
1:36:29
or not wanting change within the community and this isn’t the meeting for that though this is the one on the yeah
1:36:36
the one later this month one on the 15th is though okay we will not be focusing on this site in particular okay because
1:36:43
I I I like what the city’s done with all the parks we have we have LPD has 40 to
1:36:49
50 neighborhood parks and they got those by asking the developer to donate land
1:36:55
like this Timar Creek Trail was one of the best trails in the city of Livermore it’s wonderful wouldn’t have been there
1:37:01
without those homes being built those neighborhood homes by the way right so
1:37:06
if this thing’s going to get built I’m thinking what is what do we want the developer to kick in and what we really
1:37:13
need I think safety wise is something like an underpass on Vasco
1:37:19
Road because there was a boy that got hit in 2022 and it was a near Miss we
1:37:25
dodged a bullet and he survived he wasn’t hurt very badly but Vasco
1:37:32
Road and kids with schools on both sides of Vasco Road right over here it just
1:37:37
doesn’t make sense so I’ve asked the city to look at doing an underpass right
1:37:43
where the Creek is like we have on Home Street like the city of Fremont has you
1:37:48
know where you go under poo Padre and and dakot and all those other busy
1:37:53
streets there’s no interaction so to me that’s a safety issue those those are
1:37:58
bigger safety issues than a burrowing owl or some salt uh or some other
1:38:04
environmental minor issues you know we’re talking about lives here so uh I
1:38:10
would advocate for that and and if we’re going to you know dangle a carrot in front of the developer possibly we ask
1:38:19
them to kick in and coordin this with Zone 7 and connect and do what LPD says
1:38:26
their Charter is to do which is to tie all their parts together and and
1:38:31
Christenson middle Sports field is LPD uh Timar Creek Trail is La RPD and
1:38:38
they could that could be the first connection so to speak uh to do what they want they say they want to do okay
1:38:45
thanks for the feedback last lastly here w does the
1:38:51
city consider their 2022 climate Action Plan before they approve this project
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yes environmental report uh the 20 the most recent climate action plan was
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adopted uh last last year so that document was after the environmental impact report so in this next
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uh no sorry so that the the new I’m not sure I have to get back to
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you in particular AR if it’s going to touch on that what should uh the
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it’ss they’re just going to pass through the old environmental impact rep that
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doesn’t make sense they have to address the decision the climate action
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plan what I right so we we I I’ll give specific answer to that
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we’re taking notes here um the previous environment we had a climate Action Plan
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before the most recent one so I I believe the environmental document references
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that okay and I we do need to wrap up I um do you know why the the Superior
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Court denied the save the hill plan originally because the project was
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consistent with the general plan no no that’s
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incorrect no that’s not like the the trial court would you let
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let’s answer his question the trial court denied it on a technicality the technicality was that the uh the the
1:40:47
residents who were bringing these issues to the council weren’t sophisticated
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enough in their language to use the magic words the appellant court said you don’t need magic words they were telling
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you they were asking where’s the money they asked you Steve is there any money and you
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said nothing that’s what was illegal they also asked you where the money no they
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didn’t I didn’t even know about I I didn’t know about G to Hill until I read about it in the paper after the meeting
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coming out tonight we have to wrap it up I
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still